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Mark's Mailbag: Breaking Down a Busy Offseason

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Q. Does their performance in Summer League mean anything other than the draft picks are simply legit pro contributors?

— Jason

A. You're referring to Myles Turner and Joe Young here, and it's a question that has come up frequently since their impressive debuts in Orlando.

The meaning of Summer League performances is about as difficult to figure as the meaning of life itself. You can bend it to justify whatever argument you want to make, I guess. Some players have had great Summer League games and flopped in the NBA, some have had poor Summer Leagues and gone on to be great, and some are great all along.

Guys like Damian Lillard and Blake Griffin were MVPs of the Las Vegas Summer League, for example. Kobe Bryant had 25 points in his first SL game, and 36 in the last one heading into his rookie season. So whatever excitement surrounded them was justified.

Some future superstars, though, were just OK in Summer League. LeBron James had 14 points, seven rebounds and six assists in his SL debut, and wasn't dominant in the other games -- but then he was fresh out of high school, and facing a huge jump in the level of competition. Kevin Durant hit 5-of-17 shots for Seattle's SL team in his first game, and Tim Duncan was outplayed by both Jermaine O'Neal and Greg Ostertag in his SL experience. Yes, Greg Ostertag, who had 21 points, 10 rebounds and five blocked shots against Duncan. He probably had some people thinking the Spurs had made a terrible mistake for drafting him No. 1 out of Wake Forest.

Ostertag is among those who had standout performances in Summer League but didn't amount to much when the games got real. Nikoloz Tskitishvili, regarded as one of the all-time NBA busts because he was drafted fifth in 2002, had 25 points in his first SL game, but he never averaged more than 3.9 points in four NBA seasons. Michael Beasley, the No. 2 pick in the draft in 2008, had 28 points and nine rebounds in his SL debut, and a solid showing throughout. He's had a lot of good real NBA games, too, but has lacked the discipline to establish himself for long.

Sam Young, a former Pacers player, once had 35 points in a Summer League game. Hasheem Thabeet had 21 points, 14 rebounds and six blocks in a game following his rookie season. Donte Greene once scored 40 in a game. Those games were not signs of things to come for all three.

Golden State's Summer League team in 2009 kind of sums up the entire experience. Anthony Randolph scored 42 points in one game, and averaged 26.7 for all the games that year. Anthony Morrow scored 47 in the final SL game that year, and averaged 24.7. Meanwhile, the Warriors' rookie, Steph Curry, wasn't nearly as impressive. You just never know.

So, to the Pacers draft picks.

Young led all scorers in Orlando's Summer League with a 22.5 average, shooting 51 percent from the field while playing in four of the five games. Not bad for a second-round pick. Turner, who played in three games, averaged 18.7 points on 61 percent shooting and 8.7 rebounds.

What do we make of that?

Hard to say, exactly, but surely it means something. They both shot well, showed good judgement and indicated well-rounded games. Turner rebounded well and blocked shots, too, while Young showed he can play point guard. He's quick enough, and passed well. He'll have some rude awakenings in real games, but has the athleticism and maturity to handle it, I think. I also liked Young's quick release off the dribble, an asset to getting off your shot when you're 6-2.

The level of competition in Summer League games is a big jump from what college players have experienced, so that adds credibility to individual performances. Most of the Summer League teams could win the NCAA tournament if they played together long enough to build chemistry.

We'll have to see which way Turner and Young go, but after talking with them and seeing them play, it's difficult to imagine they don't at least become good NBA players. They have too much going for them, on the court and off.

Q. Maybe you can help me understand the trade because I don't get it.

—Mark

A. I received several questions and opinions on the trade of Damjan Rudez to Minnesota for Chase Budinger. Apparently Rudez was more popular than your typical rookie who played off the bench.

I get it. You'd like him even better if you knew him. Really good guy. Always smiling, never complained, tried hard. But he isn't by any objective measure as good a player as Budinger. And here's something that might surprise you: Budinger is two years younger.

Rudez averaged 4.8 points last season, hitting 41 percent of his 3-point field goal attempts and leading all NBA rookies in three-point percentage. Budinger averaged 6.8 points for Minnesota, hitting 36 percent of his 3-pointers.

You have to slap an asterisk on Budinger's stats last season because he was recovering from a second knee procedure. Over his final 17 games with Minnesota, he averaged 14.4 points while shooting .497 from the field, .415 from the 3-point line and .870 from the foul line.

In short, he's a better athlete and all-around player than Rudez, just not as good a shooter – although not by much. The question hovering over Budinger is the health of his left knee, which has had two surgeries – the second one arthroscopic, in the fall of 2013. But he finished last season well and says he should be back to 100 percent next season. It will be the last on his reasonable contract, so the risk is minimal.

Q. Could we have signed Jordan Hill and Amare Stoudemire?

—MyRo (via Twitter)

A. In theory, yes. The question is how much life Stoudemire has left in his knees, and whether his game is as good as his name.

Miami signed the six-time All-Star to a one-year contract for $1.5 million, the veteran's minimum. That could be a bargain if his health holds up. He played well at the end of last season for Dallas, averaging 10.8 points on 58 percent shooting over 23 games.

I don't know if the Pacers showed interest. Several other teams reportedly did, but he chose Miami because he has close ties with some of its players, and no doubt likes the idea of living there. He's only 32, but has missed so many games in recent seasons he's a risk.

Q. Please tell me that you think we should keep Solo. Why are people down on him? His defense is VERY valuable.

— MyRo (via Twitter)

A. I've seen some fans suggest Solomon Hill be traded after his poor showing in Summer League, where he averaged just 4.7 points while hitting 4-of-22 shots in the three games he played.

Larry Bird said Hill volunteered to play in Orlando and had good practices before the games. It's puzzling why he didn't play better. You'd think a two-year veteran – although he hardly played as a rookie – would be able to dominate playing against recent draft picks and guys who are never going to play in the NBA.

It reminded me of the Pacers' 1997 Summer League team, when Jalen Rose volunteered to play as a show of good faith toward Bird, who had just taken over as coach. Rose was coming off a frustrating season playing for Larry Brown, and Bird had expressed confidence in Rose after taking the job. Rose was eager for a fresh start. Playing in the Summer League seemed like a good way to get it going.

Only problem was, he played poorly. Once the games began, it seemed as if he felt embarrassed to be playing with the Summer League guys – the way a high school kid might feel playing with junior high kids. How hard are you supposed to try, anyway? Bird laughed when I brought up Rose to him earlier this week, because it brought back memories. I remember Bird telling me once assistant coach Dick Harter was nearly panic-stricken over Rose's performance, fearing he was going to be a bust, and perhaps a major headache for the coaching staff. Obviously it didn't turn out that way.

Still, 4-of-22 isn't good shooting, and speaks to Hill's greatest issue. He's a very good defender and a solid all-around player otherwise. He hit just under 40 percent from the field and 33 percent from the 3-point line last season, percentages that probably need to improve for him to stay in the playing rotation. He has greater competition for time now that Paul George is back and Chase Budinger has been acquired, so he needs to be careful not to go the way of Orlando Johnson, whose NBA career was off to a promising start until he lost his shooting touch, and then lost his place in the league.

Hill did hit 82 percent from the foul line last season, which tells me his form is OK, and that confidence and comfort are his greatest issues from the perimeter. He worked with a shooting coach last summer; hopefully he's doing the same this year. He had some big moments last season, including that 28-point game against Washington, but probably won't have the luxury of extended playing time next season.

He'll be back, barring an unforeseen trade. The Pacers have the option on his rookie contract after next season, though, so he's under some pressure to prove himself again.

Q. Why didn't the Lakers and Pacers do a sign-and-trade with Jordan Hill and Roy Hibbert?

— Johnny Fob (Via Twitter)

A. I believe they could have, because the Lakers were so far under the salary cap they would have been able to absorb Hibbert's larger salary. Hill, though, was a free agent. The Lakers had not picked up the option on his second year as they were clearing cap space in hopes of landing a more elite free agent – LaMarcus Aldridge or Kevin Love, for example.

Hill would have been paid $9 million on his Laker contract if they had picked up the option. The Pacers were able to work out a deal on their own time, and reportedly got him for a one-year deal between $4 and $5 million – a bargain. Hill's agent wanted him to sign for just one season to take advantage of the increased salary cap next season, banking on the fact he'll play well enough in the upcoming season to earn a much better contract when the salary cap goes up.

Q. I don't particularly know how this "ask and receive" e-mail regarding Pacers questions go, but I am willing to give it a shot. Largely, it's because you would be the man to ask!

I am extremely excited for this upcoming season. I am happy with our choices in the draft and I believe that both will become major contributors down the stretch. Aside from a power forward gap, I am also pleased with our free agency acquisitions! Monta and Jordan Hill are high-energy guys, who play with heads of steam and can really run the floor well. I was also happy that we re-signed Stuckey. But that's where my question comes in... We did re-sign him, correct...?

I have been scouring the news outlets, waiting to hear an official statement regarding Stucks and his return to Naptown. But, yesterday, during the flurry of official statements, signings, and team introductions, Stuckey's name was nowhere to be found. Even Larry Bird hesitated to mention him during his interview in which he stated, "he (Paul George) don't make the decisions around here." There would be moments where Larry would mention Stuckey as a back-court contributor and then quickly correct himself.

The Pacers and Stuckey are not having issues negotiating, are they? Otherwise, he would have been re-introduced, right?

—Alex

A. I haven't heard of any issues. Terms of a three-year deal have been reported, no doubt coming from Stuckey's agent, so it might just be a matter of logistics. He was recently married and has been on a honeymoon, so his signature can wait. He isn't the only player as of this writing to have been reported to agree to a contract but not sign it. David West, for example, didn't officially sign with the Spurs until Friday, over a week after he was allowed to sign a contract.

Bird caught himself a couple of times when mentioning Stuckey's name at this week's press gathering because technically league personnel aren't supposed to talk about players until a contract has been signed.

Q. I recall a trading rule that may have restricted NBA trades if players' contracts were not within 25% of each other. When does this not apply? How was the Rudez-Budinger deal allowed regarding their huge difference in salary?

Does the differnce in salary matter in any situation anymore? Wasn't it the case that a 15-mil player, like Hibbert, couldn't be dumped off for just a second-round future draft pick?

When does salary difference prevent a trade?

— Joe

A. The contract rules do not apply in trades when a team is under the salary cap enough to absorb the larger deal without going over. Hibbert's $15 million salary next season is an example, because the Lakers can take it without going over the cap. The Budinger-Rudez trade is another example, because it did not put the Pacers over the cap.

Q. Thank you for the solid reporting. Earlier in the day … well … the reports were … I am just a fan … I just don't need trolling for drama.

—Joe

A. You're referring to the mini-uproar over Bird's comment regarding how much Paul George wants to play power forward next season: "he ain't the boss around here."

I was surprised it became a "thing." When I heard it, it didn't strike me as a big deal, because I've been around Bird enough to understand his sense of humor. He's nearly always in trash-talk mode, making jokes and throwing jabs. It's OK, because he can take it, too.

I thought it was similar to an off-the-cuff comment Bird made at the post-draft press conference, when he, in effect, asked the Indianapolis Star's Candace Buckner if she had a stupid question to ask, and expressed confidence she did. It was a joke, and in fact something of a compliment to Candace because it indicated Bird felt comfortable enough with her to make a crack like that. A local columnist, though, took it seriously and criticized Bird for it.

Bird's joke about Hibbert not being able to use Lance Stephenson "stealing rebounds from him" as an excuse for his drop in rebounding numbers last season at his postseason press conference is another example. Some people interpreted that as a harsh insult to Hibbert, but to me it was just Bird being blunt and sarcastic. He doesn't say that sort of thing to embarrass anyone, and in fact is sensitive toward the feelings of his players most of the time.

It shouldn't be a big deal. The context of those kind of comments aren't difficult for most to understand. Bird is one of the NBA's all-time great trash-talkers, and he hasn't retired from that. The more he likes you, the more he's likely to take a few jabs.

While we're on that topic, here's a quick story. Pacers guard Haywoode Workman recalled playing against Boston once and rushing out to get a hand up on Bird's shot. He told me years later Bird had said, "Too late!" as Bird let it go. I mentioned it to Bird, but he remembered it differently: "No, I said, 'Too short.' He was too short to be guarding me."

Never challenge Bird's memory over something that happened in a game. It's nearly photographic.

Q. I for one am excited about this up-coming year. It may not be fair but I agree with Bird that even after all of these changes it's going to come down to Paul George. Give him a month or so to get back in it, but I'd say 20 games in he needs to be great for us to be that surprise team. Having said that, I think he has a better chance to be great with this group around him than had we not made the changes.

The one change that disappoints me the most is losing West. I think there's a chance the Pacers could be that surprise team this year and he could have been an important part of it so to walk away from 10 million to be a cheerleader for Duncan and Aldridge doesn't make sense to me. I think he will also struggle with not being THE guy in the locker room. He could go to the Spurs and never say a word and it won't change their culture, but his voice was the most important one here so I think that will be tough for him.

I also think these changes are good for Coach Vogel. I'm not sure trying to bang the ball inside was ever his strength as a coach. I can't say I've seen many teams worse at passing into the post than we were the last couple of years. Coming up under Pitino I'm hoping this new up-tempo style will be a better fit.

One suggestion, I listened to a podcast the other day and Candace Buckner said she thought we still need another back-up point guard. I wish they'd give AJ Price a call. I didn't like how things turned out for him last season after he played so well for us when we needed him. I know it's a business but sometimes it is still possible to do the right thing and giving him another shot I think would be the right thing.

— Tim

A. You didn't ask any questions, but raised some points worthy of reaction.

I agree, West will be missed, but not for the same reasons as you believe. His leadership in the locker room had been less important as time passed, because the players around him were getting older and in less need of leadership. George Hill and Paul George should be able to assume that role now. Beyond that, West wasn't the type to get up and talk a lot in front of his teammates. He's introverted by nature, and not a rah-rah kind of guy.

He'll be missed more for his leadership on the court. He was the "middle linebacker" on defense who called out instructions and made sure everyone was in the right place. He also set a tone with his macho and mature demeanor. You might remember when the Pacers won Game 2 in Miami in the first round of the playoffs in 2012. The players were celebrating a little too emotionally on the court. West was the guy standing on the sideline, yelling at them to get off and get to the locker room, to avoid giving the Heat any added motivation for Game 3. The Pacers won that game, too, after which Vogel told the players he would give them a day off. But West said no, the Heat were going to be practicing, and the Pacers needed to as well. So they did.

Most of all, West will be missed for his clutch play. I consider him to be the second-best big-moment player in the Pacers' NBA history. He didn't knock down dramatic game-winning jumpers like Reggie Miller, but he made crucial plays. A basket, a rebound, a deflection, whatever. He almost single-handedly won Game 6 in Atlanta in the first round two seasons ago, when the Pacers faced elimination, and he did the same in Game 6 at Washington in the second round.

Someone will have to fill that role next season. More than one, probably. I don't think West will mind not having the loudest voice with San Antonio, though. He doesn't have that kind of ego. He'll just do his thing and hope the Spurs can justify the pay-cut he took to get there.

I agree, Vogel shouldn't have much trouble coaching a more uptempo team. Some people thought the Pacers' previous playing style was his preference, but he was simply coaching to his personnel. If Hibbert is your center, it's going to be difficult to play a fast-paced game for long. West, to a lesser degree, was a reason to play at a slower pace, but I believe he could fit into an uptempo game because he's an excellent passer.

As you said, Vogel's primary coaching mentor was Rick Pitino. And Pitino coaches an uptempo game. It shouldn't be a problem, and Vogel loves to hunker down with his Xs and Os and brew up an offense.

Price is a popular player wherever he goes. He contributed to the Pacers in his 10 games with them last season, averaging 10.5 points, but the NBA doesn't have much room for sentiment. Teams are going to be in a constant search for talent, and the Pacers no doubt believe they have signed better players than Price in the backcourt for next season.

You could make the same argument for Donald Sloan. He's another player you pull for, someone willing to accept his role but able to contribute when called upon. So far there's no indication the Pacers will bring him back, either, although they have room on the roster to add another player or two.

Price and Sloan would be good additions to any team, and you never know what changes injuries might inspire.

Q. Back in 2008 and up to a few years ago, I wouldn't have wanted Monta Ellis with the Pacers, but clearly he's grown up. What I've heard about Monta is that he is one of those few players who gives it all on the court. I know he is a clutch player and an incredible slasher and finisher. I also believe he is a better three-point shooter than his stats show and do hope the Pacers staff (and Monta) can find a way to improve his shot and percentage.

What is probably one of the most misunderstood facets of Bird's job is that he doesn't choose players just because of their ability; he is building a team and an organization with players who are gym rats and willing to improve their games. I also see the Pacers are getting more solid two-way players and not settling for a player (Copeland) who can just shoot the ball and cannot defend worth a lick.

This off-season has been impressive to me because the Pacers are filling their team up with solid players who are being paid less than similar players in this league to complement those who we have signed as our "core players."

Also, I am totally impressed with Myles Turner and Joseph Young. In fact, I believe Myles should be good enough to get major minutes in the NBA this year. I see Joseph Young eventually starting in this league. Both players already have an NBA-ready three point shot. Myles shooting is incredible for a big man and I do not anticipate we'll have problems with him getting rebounds and blocking shots. I hope the Pacers will play Myles as both a center and a power forward this season because he is able to play with his back to the basket as well as facing the basket. He also seems fairly mature for an incoming player.

I know that the draft boards had Joseph Young listed as a shooting guard, but I have a sneaky suspicion he was drafted as a combo guard with a particular emphasis of being a point guard. He can hit high percentage free throws, he has a low turnover ratio and a good assist-to-turnover ratio. If the Pacers sign Rodney Stuckey and have four combo guards (Stuckey, Hill, Young, and Ellis), I anticipate Young will not get much playing time. I'd like to see him sent to the NBDL instead of sitting on the bench – unless we can find a way to get him into the rotation. I just hate seeing players sitting the bench and not playing because I know the importance of playing experience and it does appear that the NBDL is a closer representation of the NBA's speed.

Anyway, I want to send a message to the Pacers organization that I am very impressed with what they are doing. I know that many so-called experts are confused about what they're doing and I'm actually tired of hearing these analysts recycle the same talking points such as:

  • The Pacers just traded away their rim defense (did they not forget we drafted Myles Turner?).
  • Myles Turner is slow/unathletic (I think he has great footwork already).
  • Monta Ellis will be a [bad fit] (I think he has found a perfect home for his game and will fit in well).
  • Joseph Young is a second-round draft pick and won't amount to much (I actually see a very talented player who will work hard and improve his game/value and will eventually become a starter in this league).

I also believe Paul George's shot will improve this year. I see George Hill moving to shooting guard for a good part of the year and even with Monta Ellis as a shooting guard and if Lavoy Allen [returns and] has a slightly better year than last year and if Myles Turner ends up starting, we will be very good offensively and defensively-speaking.

My Prediction: The Indiana Pacers will be at least the 4th seed this year in the East and win 46+ games.

—Kirk

A. All right, then. Another thoughtful post that doesn't ask questions, but raises some topics of discussion.

There's no question the team is being constructed with a plan in mind rather than just accumulating talent, as some teams do. It's a plan drastically different than the one just a couple of seasons ago, but Bird thought it was time. The Pacers had the best defense in the league three seasons ago, one that was on its way to becoming historically good, but the league always evolves. Shooters get better and better, and some nearly defy defense. We're taught that defense wins championships, but when you think about it, what teams have won NBA titles because of their defense? The three Celtics teams on which Bird played weren't known for defense. Neither were the Lakers teams of the '80s. Golden State won last season because of its offense, although it was good defensively, too.

It will be interesting to see how this works out. No doubt it will be exciting for fans, because the Pacers are going to score. But surely defense matters some, and this team won't likely be as good defensively as fans are accustomed to seeing. Ellis, for one, nearly shrugs it off as irrelevant. He'll go for steals, but isn't what you'd call a fundamental defender. But Paul George and George Hill are very good defenders, and Ian Mahinmi and Myles Turner can offer rim protection.

I agree on Turner and Young. They show the potential to contribute as rookies, and to be special at some point in their careers. I said before Summer League play Young might contribute more than Turner as a rookie because he's older, but I take that back after seeing Turner play in Orlando. He looks ready. Ready to contribute, anyway.

Young played more of a shooting guard position his junior season at Oregon because it had an established senior point guard, but he was a point guard as a senior. A scoring point guard, anyway. He has the ballhandling and passing skills to play it in the NBA, he'll just need time to break in and to develop the mindset for it.

It's hard to say if going to the D League would help him if he's not in the rotation. That's the kind of thing you weigh as the season goes along. Playing time is valuable, but there's also a benefit to practicing every day against the "varsity" and being with an NBA training staff.

Q. At first glance I see some definite parallels between Myles Turner and Jermaine O'Neal. I think that's a good thing, but can the Pacers just call Turner a power forward even though he's playing at the 5, so the team can avoid the whole "who's playing center" issue they went through with J.O.? Or are those distinctions about positions being lost in today's NBA?

—Greg

A. I think we're all going to have to learn to break away from the standard 1-2-3-4-5 positioning. The Pacers probably will have a backcourt with no obvious point guard, just two guys who can do a lot of things offensively. They probably won't have a classic power forward, either. Golden State proved last season you can put five guys out there who defy positioning and win a championship. Once they brought Andrew Bogut off the bench, they had no real center. And who was the point guard? Stephen Curry, I guess, but he's hardly a classic Mark Jackson-type of point.

The NBA has been trending toward "bigs" and "smalls" for awhile now, and we should leave it at that. And some of those bigs can step out and hit three-pointers, as Turner does. There's nothing wrong with it. It's always about talent and chemistry, regardless of how it's dissected.

Q. I've been watching ball for 50 years. No words to describe the potential (of Myles Turner). How can the Pacers max his development? Start him, because he can handle it ... or work him in slowly?

I think (but don't know) that this is a young man where the more you give him, the faster he will develop. (Unlike Texas.)Your thoughts?

Exciting year to be a fan. We get to replace the negative drama with:

  • Watching Paul George get back
  • Watching Monta ball
  • Rooting for Mighty Joe Young (his fans love him)
  • Watching Myles Turner develop into???? (Almost wow, now)
  • There's a Myles Turner – Kevin Durant story that's gotta be likable.
  • Will C.J. Miles' George Hill workouts take him to next level?
  • Rooting for Shayne Whittington to contribute

Worries:

  • Myles Turner says he ignores the noise. I hope, cause it will be loud
  • If the team exceeds, for various reasons, will they all be able to get along this time???

I have been this excited about the Pacers three times:

  1. Finals year with Reggie, Jalen
  2. Early on, the year of the brawl
  3. Before the all-star break two years ago

Sorry for being long, I can potentially see big things. Excited !!!

— Joe

A. Interesting points. As to your question regarding how to work in Turner, I say keep it simple and play whoever gives the team the best chance of winning. Despite all the changes, the Pacers remain in a win-now mode rather than a rebuilding process.

The temptation is always to say a 19-year-old needs to be brought along slowly, might need a couple of years playing off the bench before becoming a starter. But Turner – so far – looks assembled and ready to go right out of the box. His body, his shot, his post game, his shot-blocking, his maturity … they all look to be NB A caliber.

He obviously hasn't faced "real" NBA competition yet, and there will be some eye-opening moments, but anyone with that body and skill set should succeed quickly. How quickly he deserves to start should become obvious to everyone at some point. I don't think you throw him out there just to get him experience at the expense of losing games.

One of your "worries" was whether the team will get along this time if they have great success. You're referring to two seasons ago, when things came apart later in the season after they started 16-1. I don't think the poor finish to the regular season was an issue of not getting along. Hibbert spoke up about his reduced role in the offense, no doubt regretted it, put pressure on himself and struggled to perform well as a result.

Paul George admittedly became distracted by his success and the attention he got for it that season, but other than Hibbert everyone got their act back together in the playoffs, and still reached Game 6 of the conference finals. I never had a sense in the locker room that guys didn't like one another, even when they were losing.

Have a question for Mark? Want it to be on Pacers.com? Email him at askmontieth@gmail.com and you could be featured in his next mailbag.

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